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some nude photos of women that i really like

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 2, 2007 11:23:14 PM CDT

Hi guys, Today when i was at the hospital for a couple of hours with time to kill, I browsed through some magazines, and to my surprise, I saw some incredible nude pictures of women in my age group.

Dove is featuring some older women in their ads, and i swear i almost started clapping there in the waiting room! Here's a very short video that will show you some of the pictures that i saw in the ad.

Click Here

i really love pictures like this which celebrate the beauty of older women in all shapes and sizes! It's so refreshing to see nude pictures like this! :)

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From robertwallis/Robert (15,082) This user is a Premium Member This user is an Administrator Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 12:31:27 AM CDT

Here's a few shots on PSig that follow that line of thought. They aren't mine, just ones I've given crits on:

one

two

three

four

There's some negative comments from critics in the past who were channelized into thinking that nudes had to be only from 18 to 28. I've got a fair number of images in my archives (not on here, in my negative folders) of non-traditional models. I'll check to see what I can find, and email you when I find them and post them ;-) It may be several days before I can get to it.

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 1:06:57 AM CDT

hi Robert, thanks for sharing those photos! i found them interesting and different. i'd definitely be interested in seeing those pictures you took as well. i like non-traditional models. :)

there's an artist and photographer from Switzerland that i became acaquainted with several years ago. she's in her 60's i think, and she taken a lot of nude portraits of herself. she seems quite comfortable with her aging body, and the pictures she takes of herself are sexy, sensuous, expressive, and artistic.

anyway, thanks again for showing me those pictures. i'm gonna go back and look again later at #3 to study it. i find it to be quite unusual and i want to study it. gonna go watch a movie now though. :)

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From sheracer/T. S. (34,517) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 8:53:02 AM CDT

I think those are great, too (and the links provided). You dont stop being a sexy and attractive woman, just because you hit the big 3-0 and its nice to see that shown. Its not a totally dying art, though, photographing older women...it just isnt as "mainstream", maybe, as the younger, "Barbie" crowd. As a model, I still get a good deal of work and Im almost 40.

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 1:01:32 PM CDT

hi Tammy, i'm glad you're getting plenty of modeling jobs! i wish 40 + models were more mainstream. perhaps this is the beginning of a new trend. i hope so anyway. :)

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From swanda/John (1,022) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 10:18:42 AM CDT

I like the photos, but don't forget the point of the ads is that older women need to use Dove's products, and then they'll look good enough to be photographed nude.

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From sheenawilkie/Administrator (0) This user is a Premium Member This user is an Administrator Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 10:24:09 AM CDT

Certainly not the message as a female consumer (their target audience) that I get. I read it as product created for women by a company that recognises all women are beautiful and worthy.

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From dv2529/Dave (4,193) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 2:43:48 PM CDT

I'm not sure that many adverts leave you consciously aware of the subtle psychological ploys they use or the mental associations they create. Whether these Dove ones do or not, I cannot say but I think what John means is not to forget that the adverts are not there to stand up and proclaim (quite rightfully) that older women are beautiful too, they are there to sell a product. The jury seems to be out on whether the Dove ones are selling that product with genuine passion in the associated "Real Beauty" campaign, or whether that campaign is just double-sneaky marketing by embedding the same old message in an apparently politically correct stance.

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From sheracer/T. S. (34,517) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 2:59:14 PM CDT

I walk away from the ads with the message "you dont have to look like Barbie to be beautiful". That REAL women have flaws, wrinkles, saggy skin, blemishes, extra pounds or whatever. That its NOT necessary to fit into a size 4 to be deemed worthy and that they arent going to use that sort of "you have to be perfect and young" to sell products. Its a positive stand sending out a better message to the masses than the young cheerleader types do, I think.

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From dv2529/Dave (4,193) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 3:14:43 PM CDT

Absolutely, the message it gives is totally valid - I don't think anyone would dispute that. And that is undoubtedly exactly the message Dove will want you to walk away with. But don't forget Dove's product in this - it is a marketing campaign designed to sell goods; advertisers use complex psychology and if you walk away with a conscious message of "you don't have to be Barbie to be beautiful" and a *subconsious* message that Dove products are used by "non-Barbies", i.e. REAL women, to make them beautiful, then they will make lots of sales. And even better if you spread the word to other people because they seem to be with such a correct message.

Sorry if I sound too cynical... It is quite possible that a company could have a real passion for something like this, and just sell their goods alongside it. However I knew someone who always wanted to work for a famously ethical company and when she finally got her dream job everything was shattered as she found out that the ethical stance was public image only and internally it was like every other business, there to make money. The apparent ethical stance was their market advantage.

If you ever see a TV program breaking down the psychology in some adverts it is amazing.

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From invinoveritas/James (5,511) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 5:51:36 PM CDT

NO business succeeds unless its primary focus is making money. This isn't a secret or psychological deception, it's a fact of life. If you can align that with sustainable goals - even take advantage of sustainable goals that are in harmony with your product - more the better.

Both ends can be met.

I think the problem is that there's a taint about shamelessly make money - which is ridiculous imo. It may make one feel spiritual or righteous or whatever to disdain the acquisition of wealth - but even the most principled class warrior punk rock DIYs still need Kinko's to make their flyers, corporate soft drinks and beer to sell at their shows, and ultimately record labels that (if not corporations) are subsidiaries of corporations for distribution.

Trying to take oneself out of the money machine is like a fish trying to remove the water from its environment.

I don't understand the demonization of money - and businesses trying to make money - at all.

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From dv2529/Dave (4,193) Send mail to this user on May 4, 2007 3:31:19 AM CDT

Indeed. I think the person I knew would have been better working for a charity anyway. However I think the thing that really disappointed her was not that the business was there to make money but that the apparently moral standpoint the company publicly took (and to which she aspired to) was just a marketing ploy, and she felt it was immoral to pretend to be morally correct simply to aid profit. I think she would have felt differently if they had had a genuine moral stance.

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From denniscamp/DennisCamp (18,911) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 8:43:15 PM CDT

I am not a woman and I understand it.
I often wonder why mature women often do not find themselves beautiful without the products.

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 1:40:55 PM CDT

hi John, that's not the message i got after seeing their ads. i think they were trying to say that you don't have to fit a certain mold or look a certain way to be beautiful and to feel good about yourself.

many girls and women suffer from poor self-esteem and are very self-critical because they don't fit some stereotypical perception of beauty. i think the message Dove is sending out in their ads is that you're beautiful just the way you are.

here's what they say about why they've launched their Campaign for Beauty. Click Here.

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From ebn50/Evan (10,970) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 12:19:46 PM CDT

They are showing the Dove commercial in movie theaters and the audience's reaction is mixed. Of course, the Grindhouse crowd was screaming and laughing at the commerical but the Fracture crowd was more subdued.

Evan

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 1:44:27 PM CDT

hi Evan, it's true that not everyone likes the ads. Me...i can't wait to see more! :)

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From ebn50/Evan (10,970) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 2:02:41 PM CDT

Oh, don't get me wrong, I am all for it. One thing that photography has taught me is how to study and appreciate the body, regardless of age or image. That is a great gift this journey has given me.

It was just interesting in a socially dynamic setting the way this commercial was received. I felt like I was in a Freshman Sociology 101 class experiment.

Take care,

evan

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 3:52:19 PM CDT

I felt like I was in a Freshman Sociology 101 class experiment. LOL! :)

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From phildeman/Phil (5,645) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 5:38:12 PM CDT

In recent times, there seems to be a change in attitude towards full figured models, older models, even maternity portraiture. 20+ years ago, it wasn't main stream, or maybe I didn't notice. This certainly opens up additional avenues of photography and revenue!!

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 4, 2007 12:38:49 AM CDT

sure does, doesn't it! :)

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From charlesheckel/Charles (2,271) Send mail to this user on May 3, 2007 9:14:54 PM CDT

I think there's a difference between commercial art and fine art in regard to the older model, quite aside from gender and clothing (or lack of it). When you're selling something, you want to associate it with a maximal reinforcement. That means an immediately available nulliparous female in prime physical condition exhibiting estrogen markers and child markers--smooth skin, large eyes, delicate features, and so on--which elicit a nurturing response in the viewer. The message is, "You can have this," or "You can be this."

You see the same image in fine art, of course, but you also see many different kinds of people, of various ages and body types, because the intent is not to display a maximal reinforcer, but to communicate a more complex message. A classic example is Donatello's sculpture of Mary Magdalene, which faithfully shows the wasted flesh and ravaged body, yet is sublime and therefore beautiful.

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 4, 2007 1:22:22 AM CDT

i see what you're saying, Charles. i just want to see more diversity. Women are beautiful and sexy no matter what their size, shape, or age. I wish more companies would show women modeling their products who aren't a size 4 and who aren't in their 20's.

My favorite clothing company, Victoria's Secret sells panties, bras, lingerie, and other clothes to women of all shapes and sizes. i love their products, but just once i'd love to open their catalog and see an older woman or a curvier woman modeling their products.

well, maybe other companies will follow suit after Dove. who knows. :)

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From charlesheckel/Charles (2,271) Send mail to this user on May 4, 2007 9:31:48 PM CDT

I sympathize, being 60 myself, but the likely outcome for Victoria's Secret would be loss of sales. The subliminal message is, "Buy and wear our product and you will look like this." If "this" is a woman who looks like you do already, why buy the product? So the fashion industry is forced by its consumers to present an unrealistic model of women, who in turn are made anxious by that model so they buy more product, choosing the product that promotes the most unrealistic model. It's a vicious circle. I think the solution is to let popular culture run itself into the ground and be clear with ourselves about how we are sensual and desirable. We're more likely to find useful models in the performing arts than in advertising. Consider Catherine Deneuve, Isabella Rosselini, Olivia Hussey, Anthony Hopkins, and so on and on. It may not be that you're not getting good models, but that you're looking in the wrong places. :-)

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 5, 2007 1:23:11 AM CDT

hi Charles, yeah...i see what you're saying. :) And you're right that there seems to be many more older models in the performing arts than there are in the modelling business. I watch a lot of films, and i so much enjoy seeing older actors. Anthony Hopkins is one of my favorites! :)

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From charlesheckel/Charles (2,271) Send mail to this user on May 5, 2007 12:42:02 PM CDT

Aha. So when you're wearing your favorite garment from Victoria's Secret, be aware of how much better you look than even the big star Anthony Hopkins. ;-)

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 5, 2007 1:04:04 PM CDT

haha!

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From pdcook/Paul (12) Send mail to this user on May 5, 2007 4:52:30 PM CDT

I too am discovering "older women" (what's that mean?)to use as nude models. Older women are more sensous looking than a 20 something. Both age groups have their strong points and ignoring women in their 30s, 40s, 50s, etc. is missing half the opportunity.

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From tvernuccio/Sheila (36,841) This user is a Premium Member Send mail to this user on May 6, 2007 2:03:26 AM CDT

that's great, Paul! :) i like your "Waiting" photo by the way. :)

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